Charlie Midnight — Songs, Memory and the Human Condition

00:00:07: The best songwriters are observers of life.

00:00:10: They notice what others miss, they listen deeply and somehow find words for feelings that many struggle to express.

00:00:19: I am one those people by the way.

00:00:21: Charlie Midnight is an American songwriter a record producer founder of Midnight Productions.

00:00:28: He has been nominated for Grammys Golden Globes, you name it.

00:00:36: But most interesting he's written for iconic artists and songs like Living in America by James Brown including the bodyguard The original soundtrack album Joanie Mitchell Turbulent Indigo just to name a few.

00:00:55: He is also a writer on the Barbara Streisand Scrammy nominated platinum selling Album.

00:01:01: his currently writing with Barbara Streisand again, and Andrea Bocelli.

00:01:08: His words have traveled around the world and touched millions of lives.

00:01:14: but what has fascinated me is not simply success in those songs it's humanity behind them.

00:01:21: My guest today spent a lifetime doing exactly that.

00:01:26: I'd like to welcome my friend Charlie Midnight.

00:01:29: Yeah, it's wonderful to

00:01:32: be with you Mark.

00:01:34: You know virtually we haven't seen each other in person for a while but Virtually and you're looking good.

00:01:41: Oh, that's because I'm taking advantage of the Sun In southern Europe.

00:01:46: so um?

00:01:48: You invited any time?

00:01:49: just so you know.

00:01:49: But We know each other So we don't have two.

00:01:52: we can get that out of the way And we've worked together and you without a doubt one Of the best lyricists i've ever work With them.

00:02:01: I think we say more with music and lyric than we do when i just speak any language which is actually the power of music.

00:02:10: so

00:02:11: but it's true

00:02:12: yeah.

00:02:13: But you know, I've always been fascinated by behind the success of your songs You know?

00:02:20: It's for me And you know Me!

00:02:21: It's The Humanity.

00:02:23: Can you tell us a little bit about who is Charlie Midnight before the awards?

00:02:29: How did you become this Incredible lyricist.

00:02:34: Well, I guess the usual circuitous route that everybody takes to get where they're gonna go To where they want to go you know started off in Brooklyn Place called Bensonhurst were the richest guy on my block owned his own cab.

00:02:52: The second richest worked at a restaurant.

00:02:54: I didn't know this in Manhattan.

00:02:56: It's true.

00:02:57: it's true and you know, real working-class neighborhood.

00:03:00: My father was a factory worker And I just always wanted to do something creative with my life.

00:03:09: I did not...my father worked six days a week.

00:03:12: You know ten hours a day?

00:03:14: That wasn't the life that i want.

00:03:16: Luckily Brooklyn is just across The bridge or tunnel from Manhattan where in those, you know when I was doing getting into bands.

00:03:30: it was easy to go there and start playing music.

00:03:36: And then suddenly you do it for years and years and something happens serendipitously.

00:03:43: somebody comes to see me play at a club called Maxis Kansas City which is very popular late seventies and Somebody showed up when they were from a record company, and They liked my band And ultimately it led to a record deal with.

00:04:10: my record was incredibly unsuccessful.

00:04:14: But but on Columbia

00:04:17: you got a record.

00:04:17: Deal come on.

00:04:19: No I've got a racket deal, but you know what?

00:04:21: It's not always cracked up to be When it isn't successful And suddenly you realize they go from, we love you.

00:04:30: We love you till...we LOVE YOU but we want nothing to do with you!

00:04:34: Okay?

00:04:35: So it was sobering But I was very very fortunate because my album is called Innocent Bystander and i hope nobody listens to it Because uh..I don't like it.

00:04:52: I was fortunate because somebody from the record company sent my album to an amazing talent and person, Dan Hartman.

00:05:04: I remember Dan Hartmann tell us about it... About him?

00:05:08: Yeah,

00:05:08: Dan Hortman he's a prodigy.

00:05:11: He started producing bands when he was fifteen in Pennsylvania And then one day Demo to the Edgar Winter group just out of To send them a demo.

00:05:28: They loved it invited him to New York, and he became part of The Edgar winter band Wrote some huge songs with them when he was very young And then went into being a solo artist and producer in huge hits disco Instant replay real like my fire Huge hits in those times.

00:05:51: and then the song of course he wrote For The Edga winter group has become a classic that got played over an over-called free ride which He wrote and sang for the Edgar Winter Group.

00:06:03: And Then it came at time when he was decided to do his own thing, and he wanted lyricist and somebody sent him my album

00:06:16: right?

00:06:16: and

00:06:18: He happened to like it which I was amazed that he asked.

00:06:22: somebody liked it.

00:06:23: He didn't buy it, but he liked the lyric and lyrics.

00:06:29: so called me up out of nowhere just sitting there.

00:06:32: And then Harbin...I was familiar with him really not all stages in his career But you know is very well known within music circles as a genius.

00:06:45: You played every instrument engineer did everything and said, do you know I'd like to get together?

00:06:54: I love your lyric.

00:06:55: And we can maybe try to write some

00:06:57: things.".

00:06:58: And I met him in a coffee shop at Manhattan on Fifty-Seventh Street .

00:07:02: We talked a little bit.

00:07:05: Do you want to try writing?

00:07:07: And I said, oh considering i'm broken.

00:07:08: I'm not getting another record deal and i'm living in a five-story walkup on the east village and working in The Graveyard Shift as a proofreader.

00:07:17: uh sure let's try something and it.

00:07:21: from then on.

00:07:23: he opened up doors for me.

00:07:26: He was a great friend.

00:07:28: um...he passed away.

00:07:30: I remember you

00:07:31: know nineties passed away.

00:07:34: He opened all the doors for me, opened a door to be producer because he wanted me go on next step and not many people would do that.

00:07:47: We had some successful songs.

00:07:50: one of course has become an anthem living in America for James Brown.

00:07:56: I remember sorry to interrupt you but... You probably don't know this a long, long time ago and we were having coffee.

00:08:06: And your phone rang... ...and it was living in America!

00:08:09: Your ringtone....was your song.

00:08:12: I'm like why have you got that on your phone?

00:08:15: I had no idea that you'd written this.

00:08:19: You didn't say anything.

00:08:21: Yeah i don't want anybody to forget.

00:08:23: so put my ring tone

00:08:26: down.

00:08:27: If it rings oh yeah..I can write that.

00:08:29: Exactly.

00:08:30: That must mean alot for you but Of course.

00:08:36: But that was Dan Hartman, and of course he opened up every door for me And I'm grateful to him forever.

00:08:45: In many ways you opens a lot of doors For Me.

00:08:48: i didn't really realize there Was A songwriter.

00:08:51: i was more of a classical musician?

00:08:54: You Opened Up my eyes To the fact of being human which is My subject on.

00:09:00: my podcast Is Really about the humanity in and all.

00:09:05: And I would love to ask you, when did you realize that lyrics could move people?

00:09:11: Were you young with?

00:09:12: were you writing lyrics at school?

00:09:16: Yeah!

00:09:16: When we write songs... You know that you can move people and affect them.

00:09:25: Writing with you is interesting because your melodies inspire me to do a certain type of lyric that evokes that sense of humanity because I think That's who you are.

00:09:40: and So, when i try to write up.

00:09:43: When?

00:09:43: I'm writing for myself Of course it just charlie midnight stuff but what i'm writing For other people.

00:09:48: the important thing is To sort of feel The essence right if a?

00:09:53: u comes from here your humanity Your melody who you are as a person.

00:10:00: And so when I hear your lyric, it inspires me to do certain type of thing right?

00:10:06: Which really speaks uh...to that sense of humanity.

00:10:10: um but y'know When i write for Barbra Streisand then..I have to write something That Speaks To Barbara Streisande and-and A lot Of her songs Have to do speak too the sense of Humanity because thats

00:10:24: She is

00:10:25: kit.

00:10:26: She's a complete advocate,

00:10:28: you know?

00:10:28: Absolutely!

00:10:29: And so that's as far I feel.

00:10:35: whatever i write.

00:10:37: when we talk about having the sense of humanity if you write a lyric and it affects people...and makes them feel something....you've succeeded in touching their.

00:10:52: And that to me is, I don't even know if I aspire to do that.

00:10:59: It just happens when I

00:11:00: write.".

00:11:01: You've already answered three of my questions.

00:11:03: so...

00:11:05: Okay!

00:11:06: Which it's okay slow down.

00:11:09: Slowdown, Tiger?

00:11:10: It's great but you know When we together We're at the piano and in space.

00:11:21: Now that I'm asking you these questions, my perspectives change because some of the greatest songs... ...that i had performed in last year were your lyrick.

00:11:37: Because I believe the lyric and music is so magical.. ..I was invited by Pope Leo & The Vatican to perform there just last October And when you wrote lyrics on-and-on Did it just come to you without any thought?

00:11:57: Yeah, at first.

00:11:58: At first I don't have any thoughts when i start to write a lyric.

00:12:03: Okay...I do have a sense.

00:12:04: like i said..i get inspired by your melody R so It isn't.

00:12:09: that comes from nothing but i never sit and calculate what words im going use.

00:12:16: First let them flow out naturally.

00:12:19: So then of course ill build on that you know, and once I have let's say a an idea scenario.

00:12:29: And then I'll fill things in of course but i never write a song and say even when I write the film and I've written for over forty films again...I know what the context is But always start just from something that comes out naturally Then take it form there because its only way to enjoy writing.

00:12:55: So

00:12:55: basically we're doing the same thing in a different form.

00:12:59: I don't think about melody, my fingers go on the piano but it also comes from my soul and growing up in South Africa you actually wrote great lyric forever going home

00:13:19: Right.

00:13:19: You don't have to sing specifically because it was a certain type of song for you, okay?

00:13:26: A band.

00:13:30: that still came out naturally but I did have a sense of feeling that was imbued in me from what the subject matter is going be and why we were trying.

00:13:46: I'm a bee looking for a flower and you just knew instinctively without even speaking to me about it.

00:13:51: Because, uh...I think that great lyrics touch people if they're not-if their open ended.

00:13:59: And yes That's what you do They are not specific.

00:14:02: There could mean A whole lot of things but there definitely have an direction.

00:14:08: But i'm sorry go ahead.

00:14:10: No no!

00:14:10: I was gonna say I am interested in Charlie Midnight the boy who like Like this trajectory, I should have been a doctor.

00:14:20: Well...I wasn't.

00:14:22: but what about you?

00:14:24: well i don't know what i should've been.

00:14:28: um the only other thing that thought of uh..that would like to be was an award-winning novelist when i was kid and poet.

00:14:38: That's all!

00:14:39: It is all i ever wanted to do anything like being a doctor or business man anything like that and I didn't want to wind up just having to teach.

00:14:49: i wanted it be a creative person, okay?

00:14:52: And New York in that time was a very fertile place for creative people—for poets, for writers —and so you're in a community where everybody wanted success of course but you didn't feel like if you didn t have that particular success...you were a failure as long as you kept creating.

00:15:15: and that's what drove me.

00:15:16: And also, it drove me honestly my father was a factory worker.

00:15:19: I think he is great man.

00:15:22: no better than him.

00:15:24: so if i have to earn living on the fringes keep creating for life would be okay with that.

00:15:35: much of rather been rock'n roll star at point but right now im very happy.

00:15:44: So, you know You just never know.

00:15:46: it's a convergence of elements that makes I don't believe in destiny.

00:15:51: I Don't believe that Somebody is leading you to a path?

00:15:55: I believe and a lot of trial-and-error A lot of luck Hopefully some talent and perseverance.

00:16:07: It's hard.

00:16:07: so answer that question.

00:16:09: not that i'm answering any questions but II do Believe In a way That Not in destiny, but I do believe there's something that guides you.

00:16:19: It's yourself somehow.

00:16:22: But you know like it's like.

00:16:24: You answered the question because you were writing poetry?

00:16:26: I never wrote poetry.

00:16:27: II Didn't play outside or Climb trees.

00:16:32: look everybody else.

00:16:33: so went and played the piano.

00:16:34: So it kind of led me to the next to the necks to the Neckster than X.

00:16:41: Yeah

00:16:42: You know, they pay me.

00:16:47: I write stuff up that they're paying me and...I mean i'm meeting incredible people in my journey And for me like you performing even the songs we've written together and having you Know eight hundred thousand people listen watch and listen and being moved Is everything it's not describable to anyone else is not achieve?

00:17:10: That sense of artistic freedom?

00:17:16: Yeah, well we're both fortunate in that.

00:17:18: We can actually apply our craft Our art and make a living.

00:17:26: but the great thing about music.

00:17:28: Okay That you Can aspire to that?

00:17:32: You can aspire it To be a star or somebody who makes A Great Living.

00:17:38: The Great Thing About Music Is That!

00:17:41: You Can Do It Regardless of What Else You do.

00:17:45: And get that, I know different walks of life and they have bands.

00:17:51: They play it great!

00:17:53: You don't look back and say if only we would've followed this path because... ...they found other paths to do but continued playing music.

00:18:01: And you talk about humanity?

00:18:04: Music is truly....I mean..you dont even need a lyric But you can feel something when somebody sings or melody.

00:18:13: How bout the things that your doing The melodies that you do, they don't have lyrics to them.

00:18:18: Music is truly... I know it's sort of trite.

00:18:22: Music as the universal connector?

00:18:26: I do love and understand that but for me having music in lyric as a marriage is very powerful if it works If It Works.

00:18:41: But besides when you write what the path is exactly, but do you find that... You say the same things in The Human Truth.

00:18:56: Is there something that comes up all the time?

00:18:58: Obviously love!

00:19:00: It's their theme and your writing.

00:19:03: Yes I mean i think all writers if you look into it again ...I loved what you said before.... I don't really look for specific Hitchu on-the-head lyrics that are.

00:19:18: sometimes they're sort of vague, but hopefully you feel them.

00:19:24: But I think that writing...I have to say- I have no idea!

00:19:32: You're born to do something and you're fortunate enough to do it because we are privileged people.

00:19:39: okay?

00:19:39: We have the opportunity..but see i know a lot about your journey.

00:19:46: Okay, I know you made a journey for yourself and when we were sitting in writing in your apartment You know It there was no glamour.

00:19:57: but what about the satisfaction that we got from it?

00:20:00: The satisfaction that allowed us right to keep going?

00:20:06: That's the bottom line.

00:20:08: The creativity has to be an end-in of itself Or else you're not gonna be able to.

00:20:14: you don't keep going through all ups and downs in the naysayers.

00:20:19: so um but i don't know, I think that songs oh look some songs are just written for fun.

00:20:28: they're not you know right?

00:20:31: And-and they are.

00:20:32: But also it touches another part of your humanity because it lifts you up It makes you feel good!

00:20:41: For that moment it takes you away from whatever troubles you might have.

00:20:50: So, I mean that's...I'm glad you said that because i've been thinking a lot about it.

00:20:56: um when i grew up everyone said oh you know you're an artist.

00:21:00: you're going to struggle.

00:21:03: Oh are you gonna struggle?

00:21:04: Are you gonna...?

00:21:06: I don't know if.

00:21:08: do you believe that artists need to struggle ?

00:21:11: I don' think they need to struggled in order.

00:21:16: That's meaningful.

00:21:17: I think that.

00:21:20: But you do have to be, You have to have empathy Correct!

00:21:25: You have To Be able to Empathize with the world around you and The people around you.

00:21:32: or else what are you going to draw your work from?

00:21:35: Okay but i don't Think you Have to struggle but some People Are very empathetic And They know.

00:21:44: in terms of struggling It depends what you mean about struggling.

00:21:49: If you mean that, You have to go through a lot of ups and downs To perhaps succeed.

00:21:55: success.

00:21:55: Well then I think most of us Except for the chosen few That pop up Oh there's genius And now they're gonna be successful.

00:22:05: Most of us Have do...I don't like to call it struggling I'd Like to Call it that We just keep pushing Through Doing What we love to Do.

00:22:18: I think you're correct, but also it's a little more than that because... You can't really write about love if you haven't had your heart broken.

00:22:29: And it kind of makes-

00:22:31: That is true!

00:22:32: I don't agree with that at

00:22:34: all.

00:22:34: Maybe for me?

00:22:37: Well..I mean.... When we have empathy and when they are talking to friends and telling them their heartache or you're reading a book and that book affects you, okay?

00:22:50: And you can understand the heartache in that book.

00:22:54: You don't have to go... In my opinion obviously-

00:22:56: I am yes.

00:22:57: ...you know, you don't Have to go through your own heartbreak although most of us will do that at some particular point.

00:23:08: That's not necessarily The subject matter.

00:23:12: i write about a lot actually right a lot about you know, mortality about keep on keeping on no matter what you have to go through.

00:23:23: Like we don't deserve more than anybody else.

00:23:28: so and if you start saying why them not me?

00:23:32: You're gonna lose your traction!

00:23:34: So yeah I mean love is always in there somewhere.

00:23:41: but For me, it's not the main subject that I write about when I write for myself.

00:23:49: When you wrote your first songs do you think people have fundamentally changed from their hopes and desires to what they look at today?

00:24:03: Well things always change but basic human emotions and experiences stay the same.

00:24:10: i don't think we're all different from one another.

00:24:15: And I think that we're brought up in different places, different cultural experiences, um... Different languages but basically were all the same and you know with of course variations.

00:24:28: But You Know i don't know.

00:24:32: it's uh..you know really?I Don't Really ponder a lot The reasons for what I do.

00:24:44: finish and go on to the next thing.

00:24:48: And just keep, keep truckin' it.

00:24:50: don't analyze too much.

00:24:52: you know we woke up this morning be grateful

00:24:56: exactly.

00:24:57: I mean that's the humility that i-i know thats in YOU.

00:25:02: but um...I have another question for you!

00:25:04: I have a couple of wonderful students around the world.

00:25:07: one here is uh..here at Frankforts and a young brilliant pianist composer and I'm his mentor.

00:25:20: And, i find that things have changed a lot since you know when I was his age... ...and he struggles with different things.

00:25:29: now there's AI, there is computers.. ..and here an authentic composer do you have the same?

00:25:37: Do you have any partages that you work with young kids?

00:25:44: No!

00:25:45: I mean, people that are never going to be successful and I write with them.

00:25:50: And I guess you could call it mentoring they would call it metering but i just love writing for the purity of why do what?

00:25:58: You know a couple wonderful artists keep trucking out there put their music on tour managed make living.

00:26:05: god bless him.

00:26:07: I remember an artist came into studio.

00:26:12: her name

00:26:16: which though there was let's see.

00:26:18: um

00:26:20: the young hillary hillary tough was one.

00:26:24: yeah

00:26:25: i remember.

00:26:26: no, I didn't meant to hillary.

00:26:27: No just...I

00:26:30: had to produce and write hillary and luckily it was amazingly successful!

00:26:35: I mean she's just put out another album unfortunately Right on it, but now Hilary is a sweetheart.

00:26:43: She was very fortunate because she had the Disney main theme behind

00:26:47: her.

00:26:47: Exactly!

00:26:49: You know?

00:26:49: And...she was lovely and even though she wasn't classical singer again she has something in her voice that's very relatable.

00:26:59: so when you recorded her he jumped out.

00:27:03: all these young people loved him you know, but Hillary is a sweetheart.

00:27:08: I've worked with people that i've done productions for and written for who aren't necessarily stars...I mean one ...you may have known him.

00:27:22: did you know Buck Johnson?

00:27:23: No it didn't

00:27:24: okay.

00:27:25: now buck is from Alabama and he came to LA.

00:27:29: we became great friends and they did a lot of writing still does okay great piano player and he knocked from here to there.

00:27:40: we did some music for him.

00:27:42: then he moved to Nashville.

00:27:44: And now his break not as a solo artist but a band member.

00:27:51: He's with Aerosmith, he's with Ringo Starr the Hollywood Vampires and so you know I feel good about that because somebody else Wreckie got gets hired because not only is it great keyboard player in uh certain you know in a blues rock sense but his voice is off-the charts and that's why he gets hired and so i'm very proud of that.

00:28:16: So yeah there...I guess.

00:28:20: But it's not conscious, I'm mentoring you.

00:28:22: It's like let's do some writing and see where it goes.

00:28:26: You had that effect on me because until i'd met you... ...I never sung And you taught me to keep.

00:28:32: the vulnerability in my voice was key.

00:28:39: The thing for you is vocals are my strength And the thing is that there's an honesty in your voice, and we have to remember just because you can read so many of great artists who don't have great classical voices but they write songs for them.

00:29:06: They're able to express it!

00:29:10: You could sing in tune—that's all I had to do okay?

00:29:13: If you can sing You just have to be able to express yourself.

00:29:18: Don't try and go out of your wheelhouse, you know?

00:29:23: Just another great song... Exactly!

00:29:25: Another way to express that song.

00:29:28: And there are so many artists I love the most who don't have those big voices.

00:29:36: But you talked about Bob Dylan.

00:29:39: Come on, come on.

00:29:40: You've worked with some of the greatest.

00:29:42: Yeah i mean..I love his voice You know, but he writes songs.

00:29:46: even Tony Mitchell who I happen to have written a song for.

00:29:51: She write songs that are right for her voice Because there's a certain way that she sings and then she writes Things melodically.

00:30:00: they're perfect.

00:30:00: And that's what you do?

00:30:02: That's which we have to keep doing if you want them be an artist.

00:30:06: So...I'm not one of those things.

00:30:09: Oh look at them!

00:30:10: They've got four Octave range and that's great.

00:30:14: I mean look, you know Some look Christine Aguilera right?

00:30:20: Oh, that's right.

00:30:22: She saw the charts.

00:30:23: we

00:30:24: have so many artists that you've worked with that.

00:30:27: yeah Yeah, she's a freak.

00:30:31: You know The way she can sing.

00:30:33: um uh-you Know but that's not everybody.

00:30:37: And you know what the truth is.

00:30:39: mark you go on YouTube and find a thousand kids that can sing and hit those voices, but then what?

00:30:49: You can find exactly... Can I finish this for you because i believe you can find thousands of them.

00:30:56: But you could find very few artists and genuine writers.

00:30:59: That's right!

00:31:02: And

00:31:04: it is separate The all those thousands of people from a great artist.

00:31:09: It's the it's what you write and that goes back to the humanity side I'm talking about, you know You your humanist comes through Right with us right now on this podcast for people who have never met you And it comes to our music.

00:31:25: So but just see if don't have two it's all about the song.

00:31:29: you don't Have to write the song?

00:31:31: This is the problem today.

00:31:35: You find a song that fit looks.

00:31:37: Celine Dion doesn't write her songs,

00:31:39: right?

00:31:40: Right.

00:31:41: She does it.

00:31:41: Barbara Streisand doesn't really.

00:31:43: she's written a couple.

00:31:44: I'm writing one with Barbara now but But they know great material.

00:31:51: They know things that they can sing and express like Barbara.

00:31:55: I mean she is totally tough!

00:31:57: She won't Sing a word or note That shes not happy With the true artist.

00:32:05: Yeah, so it's about the song.

00:32:07: and if you're fortunate enough to be a good writer And they able to write your own material.

00:32:12: That's You know.

00:32:14: that's the best

00:32:17: I think.

00:32:17: so too i think.

00:32:18: working with someone like Barbara who doesn't write her own material she is very hands-on About being a perfectionist.

00:32:29: Do you think?

00:32:33: complicated thing to be as an artist or is it, I think kind of gets in the way.

00:32:37: In my opinion?

00:32:40: Well i think that it can and there are some that are perfectionists in a sense where they're never satisfied.

00:32:48: And if you could never be satisfied You'll never gonna finish whatever your creating.

00:32:54: But I think we're... The word perfectionist Is An Odd Word Because both of us Mark I don't consider myself A Perfectionist but I consider myself somebody who works really hard to be close to a hundred percent happy and satisfied with whatever i've written, But I am willing to say wow.I think that's really great!

00:33:16: I mean...i can stop here you know?

00:33:20: Whereas some people can't do that.

00:33:22: And um maybe as far as working With People like That which I have uh it becomes very difficult because this Really They're never going to be happy with what they've done, because it's always... What about this melody?

00:33:41: What about that

00:33:41: melody?".

00:33:42: Well yeah go ahead.

00:33:44: I'm gonna leave the room and go home And you keep on doing what your'e doing Because iIm not gonna stay here for the next thousand years.

00:33:51: I wanna write the next thing But both have very strong feelings About being satisfied and if there's a word that I don't think works in certain ways, not just the meaning but kind of sing or sing this.

00:34:08: You know?

00:34:09: And iIthink thats very important.

00:34:10: when you're songwriter for other people...you have to be able write a lyric that they will like because its the bottom line..but also that they can sing!

00:34:22: That flows smoothly....You

00:34:24: Know?!

00:34:24: I was working with an artist from another country.

00:34:31: They have trouble saying the word The, T-H-E.

00:34:36: Which country are they from?

00:34:38: Very difficult Yeah You know one of the

00:34:45: Eastern blocks.

00:34:47: yeah One of these blocks and fairly recently in the last couple years And I had to rewrite the lyric Because it became very difficult when she was singing To say because it didn't flow.

00:35:03: I mean, i can sit at the control booth and go... but that takes away the emotion.

00:35:10: Exactly!

00:35:11: That's why other ways..I had to find other ways to write uh ...the same meaning without the word though which i have to use sometimes by the way in she-i had to help her find a way to sing it but you know just um.

00:35:29: Yeah, when I write the lyric there's a lot to consider when you're writing for other people.

00:35:33: I think it's wonderful!

00:35:34: I mean...I also believe that lyrics from songs change people.

00:35:40: They grow up with them they get into their ethos or their crawl.

00:35:45: Or do you think is the other way around?

00:35:47: You know?

00:35:50: It depends.

00:35:52: See..I'm not a believer that art changes the world But I think individual...I don't, because you can just look at the history of mankind.

00:36:03: What has it changed?

00:36:04: It's as bad now.

00:36:06: is that ever was in this world?

00:36:07: Because man is not.

00:36:09: You know human beings could be the worst thing ever put on this earth.

00:36:12: And they come back They keep coming back and full circle like whatever we learned Exactly!

00:36:18: but i think individually person to person ...it can.

00:36:23: A soul can open somebody up maybe help them feel something that they wouldn't have felt or believed, okay?

00:36:34: Something in the song gets to them.

00:36:37: So I think individually it can.

00:36:38: as far man kind...I don't think It does a thing you know.

00:36:44: but if enough of us get changed Individually Maybe it will change The

00:36:50: world.

00:36:50: well i do believe That it Does because i wrote A song called the power one twenties Oh, twenty-six years ago.

00:36:59: And it's one... It is little by little but when I was recently at the Vatican with our song One of things that i was mentioning to The Vatican and To The Pope Was That Artists & Musicians Can Help Save The World In A Way Because Long Speeches And Dialogue.

00:37:19: And Look What Is Going On Now.

00:37:22: Let's Solve The Wall.

00:37:24: Its Difficult.

00:37:26: A year ago, I was my first semi-symposium with the former Prime Minister of Greece who is your predecessor on this show by the way.

00:37:36: He was yesterday a wonderful man.

00:37:38: you have to meet him and he took me into the symposium.

00:37:42: there were prime ministers and presidents from all over the world And i gave masterclasses for the Chinese because they do a lot work in China.

00:37:50: The last fifteen minutes I told everybody in the room, no one was allowed to speak.

00:37:58: You could only sing and of course they had no idea how to do it but there weren't allow even raise their hand or say anything.

00:38:07: And then loved so much Charlie.

00:38:09: every time i saw them for days afterwards on this same greek island They would sing too me an-and really believe that opened up something in them specially.

00:38:20: you know someone coming from China.

00:38:23: Well, I mean look if that's the truth in that situation.

00:38:27: It's okay i'm not claiming to you know Know the answers To anything and if uh?

00:38:34: If whatever you did change them for the better hopefully Then that's wonderful.

00:38:41: I just haven't seen With all the wonderful art that's been created down through The ages a dent made in human beings' propensity to be destructive.

00:39:03: We have a lot of good, I just don't see the world changing.

00:39:09: but like i said before as far as individuals go...I think that individuals can be changed.

00:39:16: yes

00:39:17: you do know about The Singing Revolution too.

00:39:21: there's this thing.

00:39:23: so When the last of the Soviet bloc fell between The countries my grandparents come from one of them Lithuania, Latvia and I'm forgotten.

00:39:35: Yeah that's just escaped My mind but they there were thousands and thousands and thousand people That held hands From capital to capital And They sung a song it's called A singing Revolution?

00:39:53: It motivated Them especially I think for resistance songs,

00:39:58: e.g.,

00:39:58: from the Second World War in this case... ...I do believe there's a huge power in song not

00:40:05: just music.

00:40:07: There is a HUGE power and songs!

00:40:09: I would never deny that.

00:40:11: I've been affected by songs.

00:40:14: It has a huge POWER IN SONGS!

00:40:16: And i guess it goes back even to what you're talking about.

00:40:21: Those are a group of individuals.

00:40:23: The question What, what can art do to carry this on?

00:40:28: To make the world as a whole.

00:40:32: A better place?

00:40:33: when you look at the World The way it is now and all the Art that's been created wonderful art That has really spoken to people And perhaps changed them individually Can You point to Show me how the world Has become Better?

00:40:53: No, and that's sad it said but I do think we have to keep on doing what with doing.

00:40:58: I'm not cynical in that sense because of whatever you Do if you can affect one person?

00:41:04: And make the them It's a better or give them more hope.

00:41:09: If you could any of that then That's wonderful, and thats worth doing for itself.

00:41:18: beautiful words Because i think that if it wasn't for Hope who would break

00:41:24: Without a doubt.

00:41:25: Are you kidding?

00:41:26: I mean without hope?

00:41:28: Yeah, yeah

00:41:29: i write the darkest music for films and there's always an element of Hope

00:41:35: And I

00:41:36: also think it's its cultural.

00:41:38: You know I grew up in that culture of dark melody and The darkness of our history sorry I just remembered was Estonia Latvia and Lithuania.

00:41:48: I had to get That right because my grandparents come from Lithuanias so but it is truly remarkable.

00:41:55: But getting back to what you said, has there been any lyrics that you've written yourself?

00:42:01: That have gone, oh my God!

00:42:03: That changed

00:42:08: me

00:42:09: or really surprised in a good way.

00:42:15: I don't know if about my own lyrics have affected me that way Have changed me.

00:42:23: Of course There are lyrics like When I wrote How Do You Stop, which for James Brown and then Joni Mitchell covered it in her own way of course.

00:42:37: That wasn't important to me because that was...I didn't think it was necessarily a commercial lyric.

00:42:56: Okay, you cannot stop what's gonna happen.

00:42:59: But hopefully along the way You get to experience love or hope as your saying which keeps us going.

00:43:07: And when you look at the world it's like God.

00:43:09: so many people who think don't have hope but yet again they managed.

00:43:15: true

00:43:17: for Hope and one way of doing that.

00:43:20: and It doesn't matter the culture Doesn't matter if there are a chance of being Successful music.

00:43:28: Music does it in every single culture, every country.

00:43:34: That's the power of music.

00:43:36: All those all the people that are suffering.

00:43:38: suddenly they're playing an instrument though They're singing like you said holding hands right?

00:43:47: Yeah And that to me You know.

00:43:50: we've talking about humanity.

00:43:52: That's a beautiful thing about humanity is We can keep hope alive.

00:44:04: I'm speechless because you know, You just said it.

00:44:06: that's exactly what It is.

00:44:08: so i want to Just you Know Closing and i want To say if someone in a hundred Years from now found Only your lyrics And knew nothing else about you What would you Hope they Would learn About the time we live In right Now?

00:44:29: Well...I think Obviously they would see the type of lyrics that are written, although my lyrics were more classic than a lot of the lyrics that have been written today.

00:44:42: But I think those people had the same emotions as we do?

00:44:49: They'd read it and say oh yeah right...I relate to them!

00:44:54: And thats human connection.

00:44:57: That's what i think.

00:44:58: If somebody found my lyric The revelation is We're all the same and it's too bad That we can't all act like with a saying

00:45:12: which I was gonna say what gives you the most hope about human beings?

00:45:16: Well, is that one-on-one?

00:45:19: Honestly no matter who.

00:45:20: You are No matter what your culture is or religion One on one if you unless somebody has a real Zealot And they don't want to hear anything but one on one.

00:45:31: and look i live in Montana which is what they call basically a purple state.

00:45:37: Bozeman, where I live as fairly liberal but you go ten miles outside and it's all red You know?

00:45:43: Basically its farmers It's whatever.

00:45:46: But i meet these people And we talk One on one even though our viewpoints at this point in time although They're very similar In lot of ways What they want to happen...what I Want To Happen may be Very different.

00:46:02: We sit in one-on-one and honestly, we get along great.

00:46:07: And we find so much that we have in common you know?

00:46:11: That's

00:46:13: my hope!

00:46:15: That is the message that rings through.

00:46:17: on my first podcast I had Rosie Stanza and Explorer and she said the same thing when you meet people in Saudi Arabia and you're on a camel...we are all the same.

00:46:29: Yeah, you know we all have the same hopes and loves in desires and wishes And uh You know I think where?

00:46:38: We're very blessed to be able too To create as a living as a way of life.

00:46:45: And In that i want to ask you A final question, you Know what is The most important thing to you now in Life besides songwriting?

00:46:57: yeah My family without a doubt.

00:47:01: I mean, look i get up by right so long.

00:47:04: this makes me feel great.

00:47:06: But you know?

00:47:06: I don't have a big family but it's my family.

00:47:10: It's the single most important thing to me everything else.

00:47:12: obviously You know we get involved in other things and they become important to us.

00:47:17: That is really my family if there safe.

00:47:21: If uh...if their feeling good Uh..If I could help them Get through whatever down times They're going Through if There are any.

00:47:29: by far that's the most important thing.

00:47:32: and you know my family is safe.

00:47:37: You know basically, that's at least seventy-five percent of

00:47:40: everything.".

00:47:41: This a beautiful answer...you know?

00:47:43: And um

00:47:45: ...and you know I'm family!

00:47:46: I know your family and i also believe that the family is who you really choose to love.

00:47:55: and

00:47:57: uh no when I say family first so have my immediate my two daughters, and I don't have a good family.

00:48:04: Actually i have a lot of relatives...I don't talk to them for a lot or reasons.

00:48:11: that's the reality..i dont believe blood is the most important thing between people because in my family there has been alot things happen where you do not want anything to do with people.

00:48:24: ok so then they are close friends that you connect with, and they are like family.

00:48:30: And that's it!

00:48:32: I agree... It is so wonderful speaking to You in having ...I would love everyone who sees this and will see the deep humanity That You have.

00:48:46: Thank You for being a part of my life and thank You For Being A Wonderful Writer.

00:48:51: If you're asking me to come, it's always wonderful talking to you.

00:48:53: You know that

00:48:54: and there'll be many more.

00:48:55: but if I wish There was a piano between us right now And we could just sit at

00:49:00: the Piano

00:49:01: We'd write A song exactly.

00:49:03: Well send Me some things.

00:49:05: Send Me some melodies.

00:49:06: Send Me somethings.

00:49:07: He

00:49:07: got it Very shortly Okay Charlie Middine Thankyou so much for coming on The show.

00:49:14: Love you too Okay Bye

00:49:17: bye.